Cost versus Benefit

[Chinook]

Well i received a reply on a 4x4 conversion from Agile Offroad to do the TTB swap on the Chinook. $18,500 but it will not work on my rig, so it looks like my two remaining options are U-Joint and MG. We communicated a couple of times back and forth but once they asked for the weight of the truck they replied saying their swap wont work. They asked me to call and they would explain what they found doing a swap on their own E-450 motorhome but i havent been able to call yet since my phone is dead and charging.

[Vanimal]

I know there is a lot mentioned here about cost vs use vs value vs ride quality vs preference. I read about your back issues and your dislike of I beam issues. Here is my brass tacks comment!
TTB whether upgraded/beefed up or not will still behave as your old I beam set up and is still weaker compared to a solid axle conversion! A solid axle COIL spring conversion ride smoother than the best of leaf spring conversion, although they have come real close but then the spring pack is still more expensive springs. A long arm COILED conversion as opposed to a Quigley short arm will ride and perform better than the restrictive Quigley short arm version. I believe if you hear different then no one has experienced first hand all these systems I mentioned. In regards to A arm or independent front 4wd units, while possibly having more center track ground clearance that same clearance limits you to restrictive suspension travel. The other limit is that even with more clearance in front you are limited to the same clearance from the back solid axle as the clearance on a solid front axle unit is. These are facts preferences can be tweaked towards whichever preference one may have towards the vehicle they own or type of vehicle they manufacture which only leads to bias. I have had all the types of setups that I have mentioned. Every system has its flaws I just happen to have experienced the least amount with a Coil sprung five link long arm set up as Jeep and most all off road racers have built this type of front 4x4 axle set up for years because of durability and long term performance.

[arctictraveller]

Originally Posted by Chinook

If youre asserting that you gave no thought to spending thousands of dollars having someone convert your rig to four wheel drive, youre lying threw your teeth or youre a complete imbecile, take your pick.

That seems kind of harsh. People with different view points and financial means have different feelings about spending money. If I want to spend money on my van, I don't dwell a lot on the cost, I just do it. Sure, I try not to get ripped off, and at times I spend crazy amounts, but the satisfaction I get from it is priceless.

[Chinook]

Thanks for your input, Agile was highly recommended by a couple members on here so i had to check it out. But youre right in regards to the I-beam suspension. Part of the reason for doing this swap is to eliminate those miserable I-beams and the seemingly endless alignment issues.

[ctb]

Agree with Arctic Chinook...but when you put it out there for comment/answers, "you asked for it" is what you are getting...that is what is GREAT about this Forum...you get it ALL! No need for frustrations, OK? At the very least your getting much more info than you thought...And for me, build vs. cost...I have NO SKILLS even attempting to build my own unit, AND I really didn't want to buy somebody else's layout...but we WANTED a 4x4 camper van...

Our build was over $120k, at some point my wife and I agreed, ie. furnace, its only another X$'s and we are already at some outrageous amount and go for it...as with the AC unit, as with the shower/toilet option we went for, the shipping it out to Quadvan and back for a 4x4 setup we liked best...ALLL decisions came from thinking and re-thinking...we justified it as I said above, and used resale value...at no time did I feel my wife was an imbecile (me, maybe) or we didn't think it through...we wanted a 4x4 van to go rock hunt in places not many other folks could get to w/o that type of equipment...we don't use it like Arctic or Pschitt (have you seen pictures of their adventures...OMG? What crazy people! and of coarse there are at least a dozen more like them)BUT, when we do look at a gravel road or hear of a place to rock hunt out in the middle of Utah or nowhere and take off down the dirt road...We do feel more secure and are much more apt to actually go to the next Nirvana, or rather camping where nobody is seen for MILES and MILES! Good luck! I can't wait to see pictures of the fished project!!

[Chinook]

Originally Posted by arctictraveller

That seems kind of harsh. People with different view points and financial means have different feelings about spending money. If I want to spend money on my van, I don't dwell a lot on the cost, I just do it. Sure, I try not to get ripped off, and at times I spend crazy amounts, but the satisfaction I get from it is priceless.

I have to disagree, it may be a harsh statement but its factually correct. That said we arent discussing changing out a rear bumper, or buying some new tires, or a roof vent fan. Its a far more expensive ordeal than that. But even though you may not conciously sit down and lay out your next purchase on a spread sheet in excel. You do subconciously weigh the benefit versus cost aspect of everything you do to your van. Right? To not do so is sillyness even if youre independently wealthy. Example: why would someone spend $200 on a product when its onsale across the street for $125? or why would someone purchase a new bumper from company x for $2000 plus shipping when company xxx has it for $1900 and free shipping?

Even though you dont need to build a spread sheet to see the cost benefit in doing business with company xxx over company x, you do still perform a subconcious cost versus benefit analysis prior to making a decision on who your going to do business with.

I think the suggestion that a person walks into an auto dealer and says hand over the keys to that LandRover out front, i dont care what it costs is beyond silly. The same would hold true for smaller purchases such as bumpers, winches, tires, ect...

Do you just goto the first tire shop you see to buy tires and say toss on those P245/75-16 BFG's, while your at it throw some stems in the wheels and balance um up for me, i dont care what it costs? Or would the more likely scenario be you do some price comparisons, warranty research, business reviews, tire reviews, and then make a decision based on rational thinking and conclusions based on a cost benefit analysis?

[Twoxentrix]

Originally Posted by Chinook

...I have to disagree, it may be a harsh statement but its factually correct...

Chinook, you're obviously operating on a much higher platform than myself, and it seems others.
A huge draw to this Forum for me is the talent which populates it, and the encouragement of diverse views. Its OK to agree to disagree.

Possibly, You should have articulated your interpretation of "cost" as only monetary, since people like myself may also interpret "cost" as a missed opportunity.

To this point, Think members here have been very gracious to make time to respond, I enjoyed their input...but I'm now unsubscribing from this Thread... seems there is a Village in need of my services.

[simplesez]

A $500 bumper cost analysis on a 6 figure RV platform has me kinda chuckling. 20 years in the industry and I've learned that brand loyalty pays off with American crafted products. It is a relationship. The good and bad of it. You make a lot of friends especially when you recognize their talent exceeds your bank account. Crafty people building these rigs. Constantly impressed. Open communication in a forum like this is exceptionally rare. Been steady sailing on this forum for years. It is awesome.

[Chinook]

Originally Posted by simplesez

A $500 bumper cost analysis on a 6 figure RV platform has me kinda chuckling. 20 years in the industry and I've learned that brand loyalty pays off with American crafted products. It is a relationship. The good and bad of it. You make a lot of friends especially when you recognize their talent exceeds your bank account. Crafty people building these rigs. Constantly impressed. Open communication in a forum like this is exceptionally rare. Been steady sailing on this forum for years. It is awesome.

I agree 100%, i prefer American Made products myself. My intent was merely to get opinions on how people felt about their conversion and if they felt it was worth the money spent. My intent was not to debate the terminology used in the title. At the same time i may suffer from the consequences of a moderate brain inury but im certainly not retarded. That said when someone tells me they just spend money to spend money without regard for what their getting in return i am forced to call BS. No one in their right mind or even in my case does that, its a logical falisy. Warren Buffet perhaps, or Bill Gates, but not a working man with an ounce of grey matter between his ears. Seriously, i take it as an insult to my intelligence that they would expect me to believe they just spend money to spend money without regard for what their getting in return, so im forced to reply.

One thing i have learned in this life, its easy to make friends if theres an opportunity for them to remove the dollars from your wallet and place them in their own. Generally speaking they will tell you just about anything they think it is you want to hear. This is especially true when dealing with lawyers and used car salesmen.

[WhitH]

By doing a 4x4 conversion and telling us about that.