Agile RIP kit "gave" me death wobble??? - Page 4

Offroading_is_Fun · 05-03-2019, 09:49 AM

Haven't had any stability issues with my Quigley yet.. I have what looks like exactly the same front axle, and I'm almost certain my front swaybar needs new bushings if it doesn't need the original bar replaced with an OEM/Hellwig sway bar in the front. Don't have any pics on the computer of where the swaybar connects/meets the axle bushings, but on the passenger side I probably have 1/8" of gap and on the drivers side I probably have somewhere between 1/16-1/8" of gap under the swaybar too.. Interested to see where a set of new bushings get me. I was shocked at how much better a steering dampener by itself helped feedback and steering feel on long trips.

Still have to rip the front wheels & rotors off to see if I actually have ABS... Probably faster just to call Quigley but I'll be taking the wheels off anyway to work on them.

Anyone here recommend OEM over Hellwig, or know how much of a difference there is between quality and performance? Hellwig looks 2-3x as expensive, at least from what I have seen.

**Gooseberry** · 05-03-2019, 05:13 PM

With the 2” lift you might want to drop the frame mounts down 2” to better alight with the bushing in the axel. My swap stock is at a steep angle and I’m looking at doing a drop on it.

nemesisnight · 05-03-2019, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gooseberry

With the 2” lift you might want to drop the frame mounts down 2” to better alight with the bushing in the axel. My swap stock is at a steep angle and I’m looking at doing a drop on it.

Yeah I did, Agile includes 2" spacers to account for this with the RIP kit as well as the poly axle bushings, just did not include the frame bushings but those were easy to find with the links referenced.

When I add the Johnny Joints to my stock Quigley arms if I end up pushing my axle forward along with adjusting Caster I will probably have to get a new track bar mount fabbed up. I am considering dropping the track bar back down 2" if I have to do that and maybe a longer Pitman arm so the drag link matches to reduce the angle of each and maybe prevent as much bump steer. Might seem overboard but if I am already at it why not. Thoughts?? Would love any advice as I know nothing about steering setups really, but seems like it would work in my head....

TeleSteve · 05-04-2019, 10:57 AM

What is the size of the upper control arms square tube?
These may be an option
https://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com...iABEgJLq_D_BwE

nemesisnight · 05-04-2019, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeleSteve

What is the size of the upper control arms square tube?
These may be an option
https://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com...iABEgJLq_D_BwE

Yeah too funny, I didn't even realized they made them for square tubing and saw those yesterday searching around. Ended up buying these ones as they seemed to have a slightly longer sleeve. They also sell a nicer one for $19 each but this one should be fine for an upper arm.

https://www.hiredgunoffroad.com/prod..._15_tube_id_rh

Orv · 05-05-2019, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carringb

Also going slight toe-in will make it a little more stable.

That stood out for me, too. My experience is with Twin I-Beam vans, which are a slightly different animal, but toe seems to be pretty critical. The spec allows 0 or even slight toe-out, but the van tracks much straighter and is much less fatiguing to drive with a little toe-in. (I think shops often set it to 0 to minimize tire wear.)

Toe is pretty easy to adjust. You could mark the tie rods so you have a point to go back to, and then try shortening them slightly. Too much and you'll get outer edge wear. Do them evenly, of course, or your steering won't be centered.

**Gooseberry** · 05-05-2019, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nemesisnight

Yeah I did, Agile includes 2" spacers to account for this with the RIP kit as well as the poly axle bushings, just did not include the frame bushings but those were easy to find with the links referenced.

When I add the Johnny Joints to my stock Quigley arms if I end up pushing my axle forward along with adjusting Caster I will probably have to get a new track bar mount fabbed up. I am considering dropping the track bar back down 2" if I have to do that and maybe a longer Pitman arm so the drag link matches to reduce the angle of each and maybe prevent as much bump steer. Might seem overboard but if I am already at it why not. Thoughts?? Would love any advice as I know nothing about steering setups really, but seems like it would work in my head....

That should take care of the wobble and I might hit them up for the drop blocks.

nemesisnight · 05-07-2019, 08:55 AM

All good info, thanks for the ideas!! At this point after more driving I am still having this swaying issue and its driving me crazy. Wish I could figure it out, its really stumping me and I don't know why I seem to be the only one having this, the RIP kit usually fixes these issues for people. I don't really feel like its bump steer, I don't feel much in the steering wheel over bumps or thresholds but once I get over about 55 I will get these sways occasionally that start swinging the van still and I have no clue what else it could be or why I am only now getting it.
So I guess now I get to waste my money and start throwing it at a hopeful solution with no guarantee of results. My plan I don't really want to do right now is to cut all 4 torque arms, add Johnny Joints, push the axle forward 1.25-1.75" and adjust Caster to 5 or 6 degrees positive. Then I will need to have a new track bar mount fabbed up and I will probably drop it to reduce any possible bump steer, do a drop pitman arm to match the angle and then have a beefier sway bar with disconnects also fabbed up, ugh..... It only takes money right? If only I had the tools to do it myself.

MadScience · 05-07-2019, 10:40 AM

Sorting out a situation like this is really no fun at all. Here are a couple thoughts that went through my mind while reading this thread:

IIRC I have about 3 degrees of caster on mine. And while I'm sure more caster would make the van even more relaxed in terms of going straight, it's plenty to avoid any actual bad behavior. I have no issues keeping up with traffic and feeling fully in control.

If I was in your situation, I wouldn't throw money at more caster just yet.

I also have some bump steer, and once I had everything else in good shape, it really didn't bug me much anymore.

When it sways, which end of the vehicle is moving? And what is the first movement you experience? Side to side parallel to the ground, or a tilt perpendicular to the ground? Or is it steering input?

I'd paint witness marks on anything I suspected of moving in a way it shouldn't. In particular I'd mark all the bushing interfaces in the back. -- I say this because you mentioned an intermittent nature of your issues. When I had stuff moving around in the back, it could wedge itself into one position, bind up and be fine for days, then come unstuck and move around like crazy for a bit and then bind up again.

I assume you've talked to Agile about this in some detail? They really are a very expert source of information that you should leverage here.

Finally, your profile states that you're in Sandy UT. I would hope that there are some custom 4x4 shops not too far from there that would be capable of debugging this from first principles. Look for folks that do their own custom work, not places that will just install pre-engineered kits.

**BroncoHauler** · 05-07-2019, 10:47 AM

Good advice by MadScience.

I would also very, very closely inspect all brackets, and especially where brackets are welded to the frame or other brackets. There could be a crack that is not visible with everything not-in-motion as both sides of the crack are back in alignment, but driving movement could cause both sides of the crack to move independently of each other. A good, strong flashlight is your friend here, looking for lines of shadow (crack), and a person inside the vehicle moving the steering wheel back and forth is helpful too.

Don't give up.

herb