Fresh and gray water tank questions.

[dbhosttexas]

Originally Posted by Orv

That's where the tank on my van is. I don't know what the capacity is, though. I have a 9 gallon freshwater tank and have never overflowed the gray tank (except one time when I inadvertently didn't empty it fully.)

It's a convenient spot for plumbing if your sink is on the passenger side, since it can go more or less straight down and in.

I am not worried about matching gray to fresh capacity but I would like to be compliant to any regulations for campgrounds out there. Most factory conversions that have gray tanks are around 50% of the freshwater holding capacity.

I think I am going to actually call a marine tank MFG near me and see what they can do for the given space as the pre made tanks I am finding when they are narrow enough for the space, lack the length to get decent capacities.

[posplayr]

Originally Posted by dbhosttexas

I am not worried about matching gray to fresh capacity but I would like to be compliant to any regulations for campgrounds out there. Most factory conversions that have gray tanks are around 50% of the freshwater holding capacity.

I looked for holding tank capacity (for about 1/2 and hour) and the only things I could find( that were regulated requirements vs guidelines) were these. I 'm pretty sure I read about the 1:1 ratio holding to fresh (as I was surprised to hear it) but I can't find any such reference now.


Location of Long-Term Visitor Areas
The areas designated as Long-Term Visitor Areas were chosen because of their past popularity with winter visitors and because access roads have been developed and facilities are available nearby.
The map and legend in this brochure illustrate the location of each LTVA, and the map contains a key of camping facilities available at each site.
Since only minimum facilities are available at most of the sites, visitors should plan to arrive in a self-contained camping unit. Self-contained units are those with a permanently affixed wastewater holding tank of 10-gallon minimum capacity. Non-self-contained units are allowed only at Mule Mountain, Imperial, and La Posa LTVAs. In most cases, running water, showers, and bathrooms are not available on site. Garbage and sewage must be transported by visitors to the nearest disposal site. For more information, visit the LTVA map.

https://www.blm.gov/documents/arizon...ntly-requested

https://www.boondockersbible.com/kno...owed-in-ltvas/



Rhode island

All camping units MUST BE self-contained AND equipped with 4-wheel drive. A self-contained unit is defined as “A camping unit which contains permanent holding tanks for potable water, grey water and black water. Bathroom equipment must be permanently affixed to the unit.”

https://riparks.ri.gov/campgrounds/c...c-requirements

[Twoxentrix]

When we were in Acadia NP in Maine a couple years back, Rangers had questions concerning the Van build - specifically fluids (water, and holding tanks). We provided explanation and offered them a tour of the inside since they were very interested in the Van). In the end, they were OK with what we had, and even commented “if you are using a cassette toilet then the cassette itself is your black tank”. In all our travels, That’s the only location this topic has ever come up.

[dbhosttexas]

Well I managed to get expose to covid and managed to come down with it so I'm down the weekend. However that gave me a chance to get all the bits and pieces ordered up for the plumbing I've Got the 25 gallon freshwater tank on order I think I may have found a suitable ishtwenty gallon Gray water tank however it's a little bit taller than I would like Wilsey I don't think it's any taller then the AC unit on the other side but it's still going to ruin anything resembling break over angles. It should however not be any lower than if I were to install nerf bars which I plan on doing to assist me getting in and out of the van anyway. I'm not really feeling up to going outside and crawling under the van and double-checking the available depths but I'm pretty sure this will work once I'm absolutely certain I will pull the trigger and make the order.

[posplayr]

Many people who are SW snowbirds or residents of AZ and CA will be interested in the September 25, 2007 rules for Long term Dispersed camping. This is a program by the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) designated as Long-Term Visitor Areas (LTVA)

In summary:

• For Camping on BLM land not designated as LVTA there are NO holding tank requirements but you are expected to be responsible with the disposal of waste water.

• In BLM LTVA dispersed camping areas (more than 500 ft away from facilities) there is a rule that is enforced for a 10 gallon holding tank.

The exact verbiage is:

DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
Bureau of Land Management
[AZ–320–07–1232–FH–AZ21; 1232]
Notice of Special Recreation Permit Fee Adjustments and Supplementary
Rule Revision for Use of All Arizona and California Long-Term Visitor Areas

AGENCY: Bureau of Land Management, Interior.

ACTION: Adjustment of Special Recreation Permit fees and revision of
supplementary rules for Long-Term Visitor Areas managed by the California
Desert District, California, and the Colorado River District, Arizona.
SUMMARY: The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) Yuma, Palm
Springs-South Coast, and El Centro Field Offices are: (1) Adjusting the
Special Recreation Permit (SRP) fees for recreational use of Long-Term Visitor
Areas (LTVA), and (2) amending the supplementary rules applying to the
LTVA Program. The BLM State Directors are authorized to adjust SRP
fees for recreational use of special areas, as they find it necessary (43 CFR
2932.31(d)). The amendment of the supplementary rules is only a technical
change that eliminates the need to reprint the Supplementary Rule
pamphlet after every change in the LTVA fee schedule. The amendment is
not a substantive change in the visitor rules of conduct for the LTVAs.

DATES: Effective date: September 25,
2007.

Section 16. Dumping
Do not dump sewage, gray water, or garbage on the ground. This includes
motor oil and any other waste products. Federal, State, and county sanitation
laws and county ordinance specifically prohibit these practices. Sanitary dump
station locations are shown in the LTVA brochure. You must have an LTVA
permit for dumping within all LTVA campgrounds.

Section 17. Self-Contained Vehicles

a. In Pilot Knob, Midland, Tamarisk, and Hot Springs LTVAs, you may camp
only in self-contained camping units. The La Posa, Imperial Dam, and Mule
Mountain LTVAs are restricted to self contained camping units, except within
500 feet of a vault or restroom.

b. Self-contained camping units must have a permanent, affixed waste water
holding tank of 10-gallon minimum capacity. The BLM does not consider
port-a-potty systems, systems that utilize portable holding tanks, or
permanent holding tanks of less than 10-gallon capacity, to be self-contained

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/...f/E7-18896.pdf

Note there are NO exceptions for composting Toilets. You will have to stay within the 500 ft radius of a facility or have an installed 10+ gal holding tank.

There seems to be some vagueness in the legal notice as to whether the 10 gallons is strictly black water human waste or some combination of grey and black exceeding 10 gallons.

In section 16, there is a reference to "sewage, gray water". In this context, the section 17 reference to wastewater could logically be interpreted as sewage and/or gray water.

Common in interpretation is 10 gallons of Blackwater sewage so this might not be a battle to pick.

https://www.boondockersbible.com/kno...owed-in-ltvas/

[dbhosttexas]

Well gray water tank is proving more difficult than I had hoped. Just got out from under the van. Measurements are 34"D x 11"W x 10"H.

Finding a pre made tank that size is proving problematic.

AND to get into the 11" width I need to take the transmission rear brace through frame bolts and turn them around so that the nuts on inside the frame rails, doable but a pain...

Still looking though.

Not super 100% worried about it as the van was never equipped with gray water capture behond a 5 gallon aquatainer under the sink. I have flexible water carriers if need be.I don't want to, but a rebuild of the kitchen cabinet could include a 10 gallon gray tank. Just seems like a waste of space inside the van...

[Orv]

If you put the gray tank inside the van I would suggest venting it to the outside, because it will become stinky in warm weather after a few days.

The guidelines are interesting but I'm not sure how they'd be enforced. I've never had a ranger crawl under my van to inspect the size of my tankage.

[dbhosttexas]

@Orv you are quite right in that I have never seen a park ranger inspecting a van or RV. I would be tickled sily to have a 10 gallon gray tank for sure, and even at that, I would be limited if I was absolutely required to capture shower water. Sink capture is quite sensible honestly, but the shower, no food particles to attract pests... I will of course comply where required, but if not mandatory and since I use Campsuds and don't camp right up against the body of water, pretty sure my shower runoff won't be an issue.

The self contained definition given above is an absolute non starter for me anyway as my van is now, and has been since manufacture fitted with a port o potty and not a mounted toilet.

Again not sure how they would go about inspecting for that but whatever goes goes I guess...

Still looking for that illusive long skinny tank that isn't 16" tall as well...

[posplayr]

Originally Posted by Orv

The guidelines are interesting but I'm not sure how they'd be enforced. I've never had a ranger crawl under my van to inspect the size of my tankage.

These are not guidelines they are the Federal Laws in camping areas in CA and AZ.

I can assure you they do enforce the laws on federal lands as well as in California. If you read the thread posted you will see they the Gov has recruited private citizen agents to alert the rangers to anything untoward.


Some 30 years ago I was driving ho,e on the 101 in Ventura County (near Camarillo). I was driving this 1984 VW pop top Westfalia a little fast and a CHP stopped me. He gave me a warning but then saw the title was salvage (I had just bought it ).

He directs me off the freeway and we wait for backup in a carpool parking lot. After the other CHP arrives, the first cop dons his overalls and climbs under the VW bus to check the engine/trans serial numbers.

He did not find anything and wished me a pleasant say with only a warning.

I have other similar stories about Fed agent persistence but I hope you get the point.

[posplayr]

Originally Posted by dbhosttexas

The self contained definition given above is an absolute non starter for me anyway as my van is now, and has been since manufacture fitted with a port o potty and not a mounted toilet.

You can easily avoid the limitation by parking within 500 ft of a facility.