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Old 11-06-2023, 11:04 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by lchukar View Post
So many Forum members with so much knowledge and experience! Is there a shop out there somewhere (west of the Great Plains) that can match y’all and do such AGM to lithium conversions for those of us who can’t do it themselves?
Well, yes, there are a number of very talented forum member who do amazing work mostly for themselves because we are cheap and pay ourselves $1.00 per hour. No one would pay us for the TRUE amount of time we take to do the project

Sure, that AGM to Lith conversion? That was probably 40 hour worth of prep, parts identification, acquisition, design layout, redo the design layout, start the project install, uninstall part of the project because we just figured out the first better solution, 10th trip to the hardware store because we cannot find the part we already have but it is buried some where, four "oh yeah even better" revisions installed/uninstalled/installed again, mock up the temporary wire runs to make sure everything works, redo the wire runs to make them look good, test again, finish the install, have a beer. All done except all the tools and crap needs to be cleaned up and put away during which we just figured out how to do an even better next time. Cost $40 in labor

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Old 12-04-2023, 11:52 AM   #22
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Thanks for finding the custom settings for Magnum 2000 for LiFePo JohnBertsch.
We have a 2014 Classic 4x4 and I am in similar boat. Starlink and the Fridge are using fast the 200ah AGM battery. I bought a portable battery from Ecoflow to bridge the gap till I upgrade to LiFePO.

Questions for electrical experts:

Current setup from SMB (Field Van)
BlueSea ML-ACR 7620 as isolator. One stud goes to starter. The other stud wire goes to the ANL fuse (the MS2000 Inverter side) that connects with the aux battery. I assume built so in order for the Inverter to charge both aux and starter when connected to shore. They also used the ACR same stud as bus for the wire that feeds the 12V panel (they put the 200A switch and a fuse in between). They basically did not install a main 12V positive bus in the compartment maybe for space saving since it is tight. All the wiring SMB installed is super heavy duty (2/0 for example for the inverter and aux bat connection)


Solar:
Originally came with 230W Zamp and a 30A Zamp PMW controller. I added 200W more to the system, using existing wiring. Panels at best yield 5-6Amps each so the 30A controller could handle the ~22A from these panels. Wiring is super hard to replace but seems to do ok for the 22A max so I will let it be. Solar connects from PMW to a fuse box that has 30A and that fuse box connects to the ACR stud that SMB used as bus

Alternator is 225A.

My AGM battery is one year old but eventually will die so I need to start working on the LiFePO

I have a new non returnable Victron Orion DC/DC 12/12 V 30A charger. I plan to put install it and remove the ML-ACR.

ML-ACR is super heavy duty vs the Victron 30A. While the latter is beneficial for charging, it will limit the current to 30A. As Starlink and the Fridge suck about 6-7 amps, plus other items maybe total would be 10A. So only 20A will go to charge the battery. So I feel I wasted money on this Orion 30A especially as I have the 225A alternator. Basically a 200Ah LiFePO battery would take almost 10hrs of diving to fully charge with this Orion.

I also have a 100/12 30A Victron MMPT I plan to install to replace the Zamp PMW 30A

Question 1:
In the setup I have, will the solar mmpt and DC/DC simultaneously charge the aux battery? (on paper would be up to 30A from alternator plus up to 22A from solar minus about 10A loads while driving, so in theory could have about 40A going to the aux for a shorter charge time). If not, I likely try to sell the Orion and buy a bigger DC/DC or buy another Orion for another 30A and connect the 2 for 60A total.

Question 2:
I like the Blue Sea as it is super duty and is less than 1 yr old and it charges the starter too so I dont have surprises (also has that push start force connector to help the starter with the aux if needed). I will lose that when setting up LiFePO. Any other Ideas of how can I connect the solar to also charge the starter? If there is no automated solution, might be cheaper to buy one of those Nocco starter jumpers. I do not want to remember every day to turn on and off devices.

Thank you
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Old 12-04-2023, 01:25 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klein View Post

Solar:
Originally came with 230W Zamp and a 30A Zamp PMW controller. I added 200W more to the system, using existing wiring. Panels at best yield 5-6Amps each so the 30A controller could handle the ~22A from these panels. Wiring is super hard to replace but seems to do ok for the 22A max so I will let it be. Solar connects from PMW to a fuse box that has 30A and that fuse box connects to the ACR stud that SMB used as bus

Alternator is 225A.

I have a new non returnable Victron Orion DC/DC 12/12 V 30A charger. I plan to put install it and remove the ML-ACR.

ML-ACR is super heavy duty vs the Victron 30A. While the latter is beneficial for charging, it will limit the current to 30A. As Starlink and the Fridge suck about 6-7 amps, plus other items maybe total would be 10A. So only 20A will go to charge the battery. So I feel I wasted money on this Orion 30A especially as I have the 225A alternator. Basically a 200Ah LiFePO battery would take almost 10hrs of diving to fully charge with this Orion.

I also have a 100/12 30A Victron MMPT I plan to install to replace the Zamp PMW 30A

Question 1:
In the setup I have, will the solar mmpt and DC/DC simultaneously charge the aux battery? (on paper would be up to 30A from alternator plus up to 22A from solar minus about 10A loads while driving, so in theory could have about 40A going to the aux for a shorter charge time). If not, I likely try to sell the Orion and buy a bigger DC/DC or buy another Orion for another 30A and connect the 2 for 60A total.

Question 2:
I like the Blue Sea as it is super duty and is less than 1 yr old and it charges the starter too so I dont have surprises (also has that push start force connector to help the starter with the aux if needed). I will lose that when setting up LiFePO. Any other Ideas of how can I connect the solar to also charge the starter? If there is no automated solution, might be cheaper to buy one of those Nocco starter jumpers. I do not want to remember every day to turn on and off devices.

Thank you
Yes the solar and DC-DC converter will both charge the house batteries simultaneously. If you have a battery monitor (Highly Recommended) you can see the juice going in/out in real time to confirm.

I have the Orion 30A DC-DC converter and I'm really happy with it, but others here have 2 or perhaps even 3 of them wired in parallel. They run hot.....get a fan on them if possible. There are other alternatives for higher current, and I think Victron just released a 50A Orion.

We all have the "solar won't charge the starting battery with the Orion" problem......It's solvable in a few ways.

I have mine bypassed with large gauge battery cables and a large red Blue Sea battery combiner switch. When the van is parked in the driveway, I disable the Orion via the bluetooth app and combine the batteries with the big red switch.

When leaving for a trip I need to remember to undo the above to charge from the alternator but it's pretty easy to turn the switch and use the Victron app to turn the Orion off/on. The other benefit of this setup is that I can start the van from the house battery if the starting battery dies; the Orion by itself limits this due to current capability.

Member 1der here has a smaller Orion wired in the opposite direction to allow the solar to charge the starter battery, again using BT app to turn various Orions on/off.

If the Zamp PWM controller has typical settings for AGM it will work fine with LiFePo. Typically 14.4V/14.3 absorb and 13.4V float with equalization disabled. I have the same Victron as you've got and it works great...advantages are MPPT and Bluetooth app. ...but you've got to extract the zamp cleanly and get the Victron in there.

When going for lots of amps with a DC-DC converter it's recommended to determine the van's amp draw when running at idle, and also determine the alternator output at idle. Then subtract the former from the latter to see how much current headroom you have...it may be much less than you think.

I replaced my stock 135A Ford alternator with a 200A alternator and the 200A alternator does about 130A at idle.
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Old 12-04-2023, 02:38 PM   #24
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Hi Klein


I am going to use a Sterling 70A DC-DC converter that I got from 1der so I figure 2-3hrs of driving will be sufficient most of the time to get my 200A of battery back up (plus the existing solar).


As boywonder said you can wire in multiple of the smaller units to get more amps flowing in from the alternator.


For the starter option to power the van battery I am just going to have a power pack jumper battery as my backup. I've been carrying one around anyway so I'll just depend upon that for now. In the future I may look at adding a connection and switch to power the starter battery from the house one but that's for another project.


Jon
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Old 01-16-2024, 07:19 PM   #25
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Hi All,

I finally finished my conversion from AGM to Lithium batteries. I had a month long break due to a severe knee injury but things are healing and I was able to get the conversion done over the past week or so.

Thank you to all the folks who provided advice, recommended components and provided me with some schematics and technical information. I appreciate all of the help you gave me, I’m not sure I would have been able to make the conversion successfully otherwise.

I thought I would provide some information on the process for anyone else who is trying to convert from an older AGM and Blue Sea relay setup (in my case a 2014 Sportsmobile) to lithium batteries.


DC-DC charger. I used a Sterling BB1270 unit that I purchased from 1der. There are similar items available from Renology, Victron and others. The DC-DC charger is needed to ensure that the vehicle alternator is not damaged when charging lithium batteries. This unit replaced the existing Blue Sea relay that came with the van. It also has a controller unit that can be used to configure it for the system.
I no longer have the option to bind the house battery to the starter for jump starting the van…but I already carry a jump start pack so it’s not an issue. One could wire this up and use a manual switch but I didn’t bother with it.

Battery monitor. I used a Victron BMV-712 Smart monitor. This unit allows you to monitor the current battery status and State of Charge. I added the shunt into the existing system by cutting the existing negative wire from the battery bank, adding some terminal rings to the cut ends and connecting them to the shunt. It’s installed inside the van so it can be more easily accessed if necessary. The Victron battery monitor app (Bluetooth) works great with this unit - at least the iPhone one does.


Fuse blocks. I used two Blue Sea Systems 7720 Fuse Block MIDI plus 80 amp fuses (recommended by Scalf77). Fuses are needed on each side of the Sterling DC-DC charger. These fuse blocks allow the existing positive wires and terminal rings from the house and starter batteries to be connected on one side of the block The DC-DC charger connects on the other side using 6 gauge wires that I purchased on Amazon.

Lithium batteries. I ended up with two SOK 100A batteries. These have a built in BMS and heating system for charging below 32F. I used these because the online specs showed that a pair of them would fit into the same space that my existing AGM battery fit. Well the specs on the length were off by about 1/2 inch and they didn’t fit - gah!
I ended having one of the battery tray cross pieces removed so that the batteries will fit end to end. You can do this with an angle grinder yourself. If you get lucky your friendly blacksmith-metalworker will show up at your door while you have the angle grinder in hand and are contemplating the battery tray - nice to have a professional do it properly, a lucky day.
I don’t know about other battery brands and how they are shipped, but getting these two batteries to wake up and start charging was extremely difficult. My existing battery chargers wouldn’t work since the units were in deep sleep and the chargers won’t charge without detecting a voltage. There are chargers that will provide a wake up boost but I ended up starting the charging using a portable lithium power pack to wake them while I had my regular charger connected - the charger then picked up on the charging. SOK has a bluetooth app that connects to the batteries once they are awake - it works but is sometimes flaky.


Solar Charger. My current Zamp solar charger doesn’t have a lithium battery profile. I spoke with the company, they suggested that I didn’t really need to replace the charger since the AGM profile is very similar to a lithium battery one. However, they pointed me to their newer model with a lithium profile as a drop-in replacement - 40 Amp 5-Stage PWM Charge Controller.


Starter battery negative connection. I connected the Sterling DC-DC negative to the starter battery with 25ft of 6 gauge wire. This also got some 3/8 wire loom added to it to protect it (adding the loom takes time and dedication). I wired this under the van following the existing positive wire back to the starter battery. It also required drilling a hole through the bottom of the van next to the existing openings since there was no way to force the wire through those channels.


Misc other items. Various sizes of terminal rings. Various connection bolts, nuts and washers. Various machine screws.Tie downs to hold the batteries in place on the tray.
I made multiple trips to my local Ace hardware and numerous orders on Amazon when I was unable to find the correct items locally.


I bailed on trying to place the two control units (for the Sterling and the Victron items) in the current display area for my other components. After tracing the wiring and making an attempt to open up the walls I decided not to go down that road. The iPhone app for the Victron unit works great - so the display unit isn’t critical. The Sterling controller really only needs a one-time setup and occasional monitoring - I left it in a super easy to access spot where I just open a door to see it for now.

Overall it took me about 10 days to do the work. Partially because I had to order components as I discovered what I needed, and partially because I didn’t work all day on it. If you have all the pieces in hand (and some help) you might be able to do all the work in 3-4 days. I did everything by myself except for some help putting the battery bank back in place and the tray modification. For anyone else like me, who isn’t experienced with electrical installations, just take your time, study the schematics and understand the wiring diagrams. Double and triple check your connections and go slowly so that you don’t make any mistakes. Make sure that you disconnect any live connections in the area that you are working. My biggest frustration was the lack of labeling on the existing installation and working in the cramped area - go slow and take your time.

I hope this is useful to someone else contemplating a conversion on an older van model.

Thanks again to everyone who helped me with this - boywonder, 1der, bigriver, Scalf77 and others.





Jon B
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Old 01-16-2024, 09:29 PM   #26
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So was your battery tray in the common spot under the van, just behind the rear axle?
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Old 01-16-2024, 09:51 PM   #27
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Hi Ichukar,


Yes the battery tray is behind the rear axle.


Jon
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Old 01-17-2024, 11:45 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonBertsch View Post
Hi All,

DC-DC charger. I used a Sterling BB1270 unit that I purchased from 1der. There are similar items available from Renology, Victron and others. The DC-DC charger is needed to ensure that the vehicle alternator is not damaged when charging lithium batteries. This unit replaced the existing Blue Sea relay that came with the van. It also has a controller unit that can be used to configure it for the system.
I no longer have the option to bind the house battery to the starter for jump starting the van…but I already carry a jump start pack so it’s not an issue. One could wire this up and use a manual switch but I didn’t bother with it.


Lithium batteries. I ended up with two SOK 100A batteries. These have a built in BMS and heating system for charging below 32F. I used these because the online specs showed that a pair of them would fit into the same space that my existing AGM battery fit. Well the specs on the length were off by about 1/2 inch and they didn’t fit - gah!
I ended having one of the battery tray cross pieces removed so that the batteries will fit end to end. You can do this with an angle grinder yourself. If you get lucky your friendly blacksmith-metalworker will show up at your door while you have the angle grinder in hand and are contemplating the battery tray - nice to have a professional do it properly, a lucky


Solar Charger. My current Zamp solar charger doesn’t have a lithium battery profile. I spoke with the company, they suggested that I didn’t really need to replace the charger since the AGM profile is very similar to a lithium battery one. However, they pointed me to their newer model with a lithium profile as a drop-in replacement - 40 Amp 5-Stage PWM Charge Controller.


Jon B
Great info! Every SMB is a bit different so there isn’t a one-size fits all solution.

My RB50 build has a rear storage compartment so the space between the axle and cabinet is very narrow. I couldn’t find a 200ah Lithium battery that fits that space so i relocated the battery under the bench seat. Bonus: If it catches on fire while I’m sleeping I’ll die quicker. ;-)

My Solar Boost 2000e failed so rather than replace it I used a Renogy 50amp DC-DC charger which includes a MPPT Solar controller. The unit interfaces with their One Core monitoring system so you can see all the telemetry on one display and phone app. Also includes a leveling feature!

https://www.renogy.com/dcc50s-12v-50...nogy-one-core/

I cut an ABS plate for the space that was used for the Solar Boost 2000e and mounted the battery monitor with shunt there.

Renogy 50amp DC-DC charger with solar MPPT



Renogy 200ah LiFePO4 battery under bench seat.



Renogy One Core



Renogy battery monitor with shunt



For those of us with dual starter batteries, check your lugs! I think this was the root cause of a lot of issues I was having including the solar controller failure. This was the 2nd battery, towards the rear of the van.

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Old 01-17-2024, 09:32 PM   #29
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Absolutely right, there are many options and configurations to work with - not a simgle solution for making a conversion.


Jon B
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