Vans such large targets for the police

[witoke]

I always figured a big macho van was kinda like joining the secret redneck club and so gave you an invisibility cloak around LEO.

[macmcintire]

Originally Posted by jage

Interesting my wife got pulled over this evening for a turn signal violation- not out, not didn't use, -- didn't flash enough times for the officer's satisfaction. Stated reason, no kidding.

After giving her the rundown, asking after her gun permit (illegal for police in Colorado to even have that database anymore, much less actively use it) starting asking her if there was a weapon in the vehicle. Of course there was no need for him to know that, PLUS it's totally legal to have a loaded firearm in the vehicle in Colorado without a permit anyway. Bless her heart, she thought it but didn't point that out to the officer....

If it's true that a concealed weapons permit is tied somehow to a vehicle license, the blinker could have been the excuse for pulling the car over to check on the weapon. Back when I was a police officer we didn't have computers (or cell phones, etc. My night stick was made of wood. That's how long ago I was a police officer). Now, with computers, an officer has a lot of information at his/her finger tips. He/she can see some information about the individual (outstanding warrants, etc.) and then find some pretext for pulling the vehicle over just to check it out.

Interestingly, once I was driving through a known speed trap on I-80 near Coalville, Utah. I purposefully was driving under the speed limit. I was shocked when I got pulled over. The reason: my window tint was too dark. In the desert of Nevada everyone has dark window tint so your dashboard and seats don't rot in the sun. In reality the officer just wanted to check my driver's license, registration, insurance, etc. in hope there would be some other violation. He even checked my lights, blinkers and brake lights just to see if he could find something.

You know, the more I think about this discussion stream the more I'm coming to realize there are a lot of people who get pulled over for no reason whatsoever. Put me down as a check mark in the "agree" column that some cops are just jerks!

[bratworst]

People are jerks, cops are people; but as long as politicians use the cop on the street as part of a larger income generating machine, then there will be plenty of abuses and questionable stops-just like they were doing in Florida, always fishing for a big property forfeiture.

[webbmac]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Ame ... nstitution

It's pretty clear. People died for it.

[ANZAC]

Originally Posted by webbmac

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

It's pretty clear. People died for it.

We were talking about this over lunch. It is pretty easy to invent probable cause "I smell weed" etc.

This stuff still happens, it hasn't gone away. And look, I don't want to come off anti-cop; I'm the guy that goes the extra mile to make sure I'm following the law and I also try to be respectful as I can be to another person doing their job. But I'm also realistic enough to know that for whatever reason, you can wind up on the side of the road getting a cavity/van search.

[BroncoHauler]

To go off on a further tangent, how about them "checkpoints"?

I fully support getting drunk drivers off the road. I've seen my share, but to me the end does not justify the means, when it comes to violating people's civil liberties.

If an LEO sees that someone is doing something wrong to justify pulling them over, so be it. But to force all drivers through a checkpoint "in case" they've done something wrong is unconstitutional IMO.


Herb

[Ketcham]

I have that beat. In 2005 I was moving from Burlington, VT to Portland, OR. My then wife and 10 month old son. We took the ferry across Lake Champlain and traveling south on I-87. In the middle of nowhere there was a road block-check stop. We were asked if we both were US citizens. They asked for my wife's greencard. I said it was buried in the pile of stuff in the back and gave them her valid Vermont DL. She detained us and fined us $500 for not brandishing a Greencard. An ID that by direction of immigration services states not to carry on person by have safely filed away.

I would never expect those 'events' to happen in the West and was very happy to leave the East Coast indefinately. It is sad to see every American's Constitutional rights erode before my eyes in my lifetime. Sader to think that the general US population is too stupid to know the difference. This ties into other topics such as education, entitlement programs, and the Federal Reserve that are not appropriate for this forum.

[Ford_6L_E350]

Originally Posted by BroncoHauler

To go off on a further tangent, how about them "checkpoints"?

I fully support getting drunk drivers off the road. I've seen my share, but to me the end does not justify the means, when it comes to violating people's civil liberties.

If an LEO sees that someone is doing something wrong to justify pulling them over, so be it. But to force all drivers through a checkpoint "in case" they've done something wrong is unconstitutional IMO.


Herb

So Herb, do you support eliminating border checks also?

I fully support DUI checkpoints. A couple minutes spent to make the roads safer is a small cost. And, remember, driving is a privilege, not a right. The amount of drunks and unlicensed drivers/vehicles found at checkpoints is reason enough to keep them, IMHO.

Happy New Year!

Mike

[SMBDAD]

Originally Posted by ANZAC

We were talking about this over lunch. It is pretty easy to invent probable cause "I smell weed" etc.

This stuff still happens, it hasn't gone away. And look, I don't want to come off anti-cop; I'm the guy that goes the extra mile to make sure I'm following the law and I also try to be respectful as I can be to another person doing their job. But I'm also realistic enough to know that for whatever reason, you can wind up on the side of the road getting a cavity/van search.

I believe in CA this practice of pullling someone over for a BS moving violation just to search their vehicle has been banned. As long as you are not a parolee you can say no! If they find anything it is useless as it is an illegal search. This was a large revenue source for the police and was a violation of our rights.

[ANZAC]

Originally Posted by Ford_6L_E350

I fully support DUI checkpoints. A couple minutes spent to make the roads safer is a small cost. And, remember, driving is a privilege, not a right. The amount of drunks and unlicensed drivers/vehicles found at checkpoints is reason enough to keep them, IMHO.

Ditto. In Australia it is called Random Breath Testing or RBT. The inconvenience is minor.
I'd rather this than have my family killed by a drunk driver.