Vans such large targets for the police

[bratworst]

It's a slippery slope, though. It starts there but we'll soon see checkpoints crop up for all kinds of things that strike directly at our freedoms--seat belts, smoking, obesity, Ding Dongs, tinted windows.....

[ANZAC]

Originally Posted by bratworst

It's a slippery slope, though. It starts there but we'll soon see checkpoints crop up for all kinds of things that strike directly at our freedoms--seat belts, smoking, obesity, Ding Dongs, tinted windows.....

I don't buy the slippery slope arguments. RBT has been around in Australia for 25 years plus, no other checkpoints showed up.

I think you can draw a pretty direct correlation between people that DUI and loss of innocent lives.

[BroncoHauler]

As far as I'm concerned it's a slippery slope, and one that's been lubed with oil.

Maybe we will have mandatory health insurance. If we do, do you think it's OK for the Government to start mandating what you're allowed to do, or eat, or mandate a minimum amount of exercise for you? Genetic abnormality? Sorry, you can't have children. Those are some possible scenarios. Real situations are that we have sobriety checkpoints. We have the Patriot Act. We have some jurisdictions where you are required to carry identification with you at all times even if you are walking through town. The Supreme Court upheld a lower court ruling that a local government can use eminent domain to seize private property in order to sell it to a commercial developer because it will generate more tax revenue. 70 years ago the US Government decided it was in the best interest of national security to lock up people of Japanese descent even if they were US citizens, whether by birth or Naturalization. We have a ugly history of giving up, or taking away, rights away from our citizens.

When we start rationalizing giving up rights because it's not too inconvenient for "just this one thing", the government at all levels and the law enforcement organizations will take that as precedent and take a little more next time, over and over again.

As for border checkpoints, if you're talking about between the US and Canada/Mexico, of course I don't want that given up. It's the Federal Government's obligation to ensure secure borders (whether they do so or not, is another discussion). The Government's performance of that job does not infringe on my personal rights.

Yes the DUI issue is a major problem affecting our country. Punish those involved and not the 99% of the country that is not part of the problem. Permanent revocation of their licenses. Prison time. Even now, the amount of consequence for DUI is minor. As you mention, it's a privilege not a right, but my rights are guaranteed by two little documents call the United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights. The US Constitution and the Bill of Rights guarantee me certain rights, rights that no local jurisdiction has the ability or right to take away. Not the 'right to drive' but the right against unlawful search and seizure.


Herb

[bratworst]

I was stopped at a checkpoint in California where they were looking for seatbelt infractions. Only wasted 15 minutes of my time waiting in line and answering their questions, but do you think it ends there? Try to open a medicine bottle with arthritic fingers. Try to buy a decent decongestant for your head cold while you're on the road. Physicians are becoming afraid to give decent pain meds to patients for fear of losing their license. Pretty soon everything will be a privilege--think of the politics surrounding handguns & ammo for home protection. In a few years that privilege will be gone, too.

[ANZAC]

I am not not sure leaning out the window to blow into a device is illegal search and seizure, but then I am not a lawyer.

[BroncoHauler]

Originally Posted by bratworst

... Pretty soon everything will be a privilege--think of the politics surrounding handguns & ammo for home protection. In a few years that privilege will be gone, too.

Completely agree, except for that the 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution says it's a right, not a privilege.

The way this thread is going, it will soon migrate to discussions about NAFTA, and how hurricane Katrina was a Government conspiracy.


Herb

[BroncoHauler]

Originally Posted by ANZAC

I am not not sure leaning out the window to blow into a device is illegal search and seizure, but then I am not a lawyer.

Trust me, I'm not a lawyer either.

My beef is that, if I have not been observed doing anything suspicious, why should I have to stop, roll down my window, talk to an officer at all? Next thing you know, all drivers of vans will be subject to questioning and cavity searches at international borders.


Herb

[Viejo]

think of the politics surrounding handguns & ammo for home protection. In a few years that privilege will be gone, too.

Gone in law perhaps but not in fact. Remember the old 60s bumper sticker: "The Govt can take my gun when they pry it from my cold dead fingers." ??

Who'd of thought this old hippie would be big a 2nd amendment supporter? Well, I'm a big fan of all 10 of 'em.

[bratworst]

Yep, time to go for a drive and take my chances

[BroncoHauler]

Lightening things up, did you ever watch The Man Show, where the hosts circulated a petition to repeal Women's Suffrage? Maybe it was just made for TV drama, but it was amazing how many people were willing to sign the petition, without knowing what it really was.


Herb