Homemade Transformer Idea - what do you think?

[saabman]

The Westfalia James Cook is an awesome van!!! If I had $$$$$$$$$$ I would get a 4x4 under that ... but maybe a lower top

[jage]

It was a place called Accessory Truck, 2232 Toledo Rd Elkhart, IN 46516. 800-825-0628.

I'd be really suprised if they are still there- the invoice for one is hand written... and I don't mean the itemized part, I mean the company name and address.

Good people though.

The rear bench is listed as "Power LFD to match".

[dave_in_delaware]

Originally Posted by AndrewST

As you said thinking alike... If you find an US manufacturer please share...

Will do! The RIB seat manufacturer said they'd ship a seat to me for $400. Plus, the way that seat works, I think I'd have to install it rear-facing. I don't think so. So, I'm still looking for a solution.

That seat that flips up into a bed is quite interesting! That would work if I build "lower" cabinets, then the bed could be opened just above the cabinets. But then having ceiling height cabinets (to maximize storage) wouldn't be possible....

Originally Posted by jage

It was a place called Accessory Truck, 2232 Toledo Rd Elkhart, IN 46516. 800-825-0628. The rear bench is listed as "Power LFD to match".

Thanks for the info Sir. We'll see what some research turns up.

Oh, BTW:
Since i'm planning on using this camper year-round, I've been looking into various heating system layouts. I came across an awesome (IMHO) heating system idea for my homebuild, which will use much less propane and electricity than the standard kind of RV hot air furnace. I'm still looking deeper into the idea and design, but I think I'm leaning towards a simplified one-zone hydronic system.

[dave_in_delaware]

Well, I just did a Google search for "Accessory Truck Elkhart" (initial research on jage's specific company came up empty), but I found a ton of other companies in Elkhart related to the "LFD" seat/bed he mentioned.

Here are my first results for van seating options:

From Superior Seats, Inc:



Looks promising. I'll keep looking for other sources.

[dave_in_delaware]

Well, I finally had a chance to call a small auto broker dealer that always has a bunch of vans for sale. The owner told me he buys them all off-lease and they're always in decent shape, and he doesn't sell any for more than $9k (which is why they go fast). He'd even finance part of the price through a local bank if I needed that.

He just got a 2006 Ford E-350 RB 6.0 diesel in with about 115k miles, and he's asking $8750 for it.

I'm not sure if that's a good price/mileage for diesels that age since I'm not really looking for one of those (diesel), but since he said that all of his vans go for under $9k, that makes me happy. And when I'm ready, I'll probably get my DIY homebuild RV "base" van there.

[dave_in_delaware]

Just a tiny update: I've been researching other DIY RV projects and looking at photos and reading "process" reports. I think I'm narrowing down the floor plan layout of my rig. I just have to check one thing w/ the DMV to make sure it's "OK" to do. If it is, then I'll post my idea. If not, then it's back to the drawing board (I already have 13 plan layout ideas sketched so far - what's one more? LOL).

Plus, I'm still trying to work out the hydronic heating system. I found a small propane all-in-one kind of system (basically, the Aqua-Hot system), but it's still to figgin big to put into my DIY van conversion.

I think I've narrowed my selection of an insulating method for the floor/walls/ceiling, too. A little more research is needed, but I think I'm satisfied with what I've found so far.

[dave_in_delaware]

Well, I've been researching exactly what the requirements are for seating systems and seatbelt assemblies in DIY RV's like this. I've been wanting to use the proper materials and anchorage and design standards to make my DIY seating not only safe for any passengers, but also comply with Federal regulations. I had a 10-minute telephone conversation with my contact* at the NHTSA, and he basically told me that once a vehicle is bought by an individual, it's no longer considered "new" and pretty much all Federal Standards don't apply anymore.

Interestingly enough, I did learn about the "testing procedures" they do on the seating and seatbelt assemblies. These are DESTRUCTIVE tests, where the NHTSA buys a brand new vehicle, removes the engine, and cuts out the firewall to attach cables and chains through the engine compartment to hydraulic testing machines. Then, insane forces are applied to the seating and seatbelt systems, making sure they can withstand certain forces. Catastrophic failures in the systems will destroy seats/seatbelts, but in order to make sure assemblies are strong enough to handle many kinds of accidents, it's necessary.

SO, unless I wanted to build my entire RV and take it to a testing facility, and let them test it (more like probably destroy it), I'm out of luck. This is why the Federal regulations don't apply to individually-owned (i.e. used) vehicles, no matter how they're modified.

He said that there are third-party manufacturers that make bolt-in seating assemblies that have passed NHTSA testing. But this testing was strictly based on the seating system alone (not installed in an RV) and if it withstood the testing forces as it was attached to a test base. So the seating assembly would be pass/fail as tested on a generic base, NOT in a specific RV.

So, that means if someone buys a third-party seating system and anchors it to their own RV body, there's no guarantee that it'll stand up to an accident, because there are too many factors (was the bolt anchored properly? was the floor rusty? was a sufficient backup plate or washer used? etc). This is why dealerships won't install additional seating provided by the buyers, and why manufacturers tell the dealerships NOT to install such things. It's a liability issue. And there's No DESTRUCTIVE testing (as mentioned above on new vehicles) conducted with the seating IN a vehicle from these sorts of systems. So, this leads me to believe that the Gaucho style seats in Sportsmobiles were probaly never tested actually installed IN a SMB (or else a SMB would have been destroyed to satisfy the true testing). Hmmm... interesting. Although an email into Nancy would verify this assumption.

My contact did mention that without the testing, if I did DIY my own seating and seatbelt systems and didn't have it tested (and more importantly, approved) by the the NHTSA, and if someone was a passenger in the rear seating in my van and there was an accident (resulting in injury or death), I'd obviously be sued big-time. More importantly, I wanted to design the seats so that three passengers (namely my own children) could ride with me and go camping. But without proper testing (and basicly destroying) my seating and assemblies, any DIY setup wouldn't be safe enough to use. And since we're talking about my own children as the passengers, there's NO WAY I'm going to gamble with their safety, no matter how well-designed or well-built my seating ideas are.

So, that leaves me with three options:

1. Find a van that has the second-row bench seat (crew van option) and design the bed portion around that (like I was already doing earlier). This is possible, but severely limits the layout of the design. and it reduces the amount of storage space, especially for the water and electrical systems in the first place.

2. Find a third-party seating/bed system that can be properly anchored to the van. This is also limiting, but I could install it side-facing or rear-facing. Again, space for the systems would be reduced, making it difficult to fit all the requirements inside.

3. Just design the RV for two, and no other passengers. This way I won't have to worry about seating systems and seatbelt anchorage assemblies, and I can just design for comfort for two when camping (not driving). My current seating/bed design provides a LOT of space under the seats for the various systems, and I really like the functionality of the design.


Hmmm. As much as I want my kids to enjoy RVing with me (on the weekends), I think I'm leaning more towards option #3. By DIY the entire van (and using no third-party seating systems), I can design it however I want and put in EXACTLY what I want (and learn about the systems in it). That may sound selfish, but if you recall, this would be my first ever RV or camping experience, so I have to make sure I even like the lifestyle before spending big bucks on a manufactured RV in the future. And if camping isn't something I like (or isn't something I'm good at), I don't want to torture the kids with it, too. LOL.


What do you think about all of this? How would you proceed, if this was your project?



*Contact:
Ed Chan (Standards 202, 207, 210, 225, 301, 303, and 305)
Vehicle Crashworthiness Division
Office of Vehicle Safety Compliance
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration

[saabman]

What if you DIYed the van but used original seatbelt anchor points as used in the passenger vans? This would least assure you the location of the fitting would be as safe as possible even if not tested and compliant...?

This is what I am soo doing with my van Swiss Build V.2 needless to say over here the mere fact of changing original seating and fitting side facing seats renders any safety compliance completely redundant... lateral bench seats are considered not safe ... for those of you who know Land Rovers they have stoped lateral seats in the back of defenders....

[dave_in_delaware]

Well, that's a good idea, but I'm not planning on getting a passenger van with all those windows. I'm going on the assumption (yes, I know what that does) that I'll be converting a cargo van, preferably with no additional windows so I can maximize storage all the way up the walls.

But you're right: using the existing anchor points would be a good idea. However, the seating I designed might not hold up under accident dynamics, rendering the seatbelts pointless in an accident anyway.

I think I'll play it safe and not worry about additional passengers at this point. I don't think the headaches and stress (not to mention overall safety for my children) will be worth it in the long-run. If I enjoy camping, I can always get a proper seating-tested RV and have no worries then.

[saabman]

Dave yes I guessed you wouldn't have a passenger van, but passenger vans are basically the same and you could add belts to a cargo van using the same parts/location as in the passenger van...

All that being said I agree about the safety issue... I am currently thinking about the same thing