2013 6.8l V10 Low Idle and Surging - Page 5

Flux · 03-30-2017, 10:28 PM

Hmmmmmmmmmm.......

Fuel trim can be a valuable diagnostic tool - Eastern Manufacturing

I had some pretty low trim levels (-25%) when I would rev at idle and then let off.

Seems they suggest what you did Sweezy, but to reset the KAM by pulling the POSITIVE battery cable and then connecting that cable to ground for 10 seconds to drain all the power from the ECM. It is then suggested to turn on and idle for a few minutes. You can turn it off and on too, and then take it for a normal cruise to relearn some stuff. Gonna have to try this.

There's also some suggestions that this is done when switching tunes. Maybe my rig was tuned and then this KAM business waasn't done right etc. I am starting to think that my issues are electronic brain oriented and not mechanical in nature.

Thinking out loud here.....as I attempt to learn a thing or three.

Jsweezy · 03-30-2017, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flux

Hmmmmmmmmmm.......

Fuel trim can be a valuable diagnostic tool - Eastern Manufacturing

Seems they suggest what you did Sweezy, but to reset the KAM by pulling the POSITIVE battery cable and then connecting that cable to ground for 10 seconds to drain all the power from the ECM. It is then suggested to turn on and idle for a few minutes. You can turn it off and on too, and then take it for a normal cruise to relearn some stuff. Gonna have to try this.

Ya, Id give it a try. Theres really nothing to lose in doing so and its the easiest thing you can do ha ha.

Flux · 03-30-2017, 10:38 PM

One thing I have not done is strip down to the throttle body and clean that out. There was some oil in my PCV valve and tube so that could have worked it's way to the throttle body and that was suggested by carringb a while back I think. I will have to follow your steps.

And I totally agree about the simplest of things putting you on your ear. I have had the battery disconnected and maybe I did not let it learn correctly. A simple cleanup and inspection is never a bad thing. I do want to learn the engine, this is my investment in fun.

Biggest gripe is this is taking time from the build!!

Flux · 03-30-2017, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jsweezy

Ya, Id give it a try. Theres really nothing to lose in doing so and its the easiest thing you can do ha ha.

I'd do it right now but the wife is asleep and I just put the kids down. Neighbors already think I am insane with this van thing so that wouldn't matter.

Jsweezy · 03-30-2017, 11:03 PM

Ha ha ya, I live out in the country which is nice because it means I can literally do whatever I am up to doing at any hour. But I do have a neighbor and even though they say that can't hear me I don't want to be rude if I dont have to be.

They even asked me today, "Did you get another new van?!" ha ha

My van only has 13k miles and needed the throttle body cleaned so I am sure yours could use it.

Ironically enough all of my vans have had different things they have taught me. The first one got me hooked on the van life and general van stuff. The second one taught me about everything I need to know about suspension and now this one is forcing me to learn about the engine. I dont advise the same route I took to learn but its been an adventure!

86Scotty · 03-31-2017, 08:33 AM

Have you dropped this info on FTE forums in the v10 section? There are lots of smart cookies there. Your v10 is no different than the truck one, which is what everyone there will have, but I bet you'll get some advice.

You could call a few of the big tuners with your VIN and they could probably tell you if they sold something for it.

Flux · 03-31-2017, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86Scotty

Have you dropped this info on FTE forums in the v10 section? There are lots of smart cookies there. Your v10 is no different than the truck one, which is what everyone there will have, but I bet you'll get some advice.

You could call a few of the big tuners with your VIN and they could probably tell you if they sold something for it.

All good ideas! And I may have to. I don't want to take it to the dealer before I do due diligence. I have some time this weekend and will do the Jsweezy method of cleaning the throttle and various components around it and resetting the KAM. If it's still acting funny then I will post up on FTE and see what gives.

As best as I can tell, these things use the 02 sensors to adjust mix etc. I wish I knew more about engines so I could figure this, but without all the easy to look at fun stuff it seems all electronic.From my scanner I see it defueling rapidly after letting of the pedal in all situations including idle rev, around a corner, and at speed on highway.

When my computer acts funny, I reboot it. When a program is messed up I upgrade it or reinstall it. Guess I need to try this approach with the van. Worst case being getting it reflashed from the dealer. I may actually do this anyway in lieu of getting a 5 star on it. This way I have a saved stock configuration.

**BroncoHauler** · 03-31-2017, 10:45 AM

Could it already have a tune on it when you bought it? With my Police Interceptor, I was having issues getting a tune to install properly, and the guy making the tunes for me, finally asked me to take it to Ford and have them reflash the PCM. After that, the car ran much better and the new tune installed just fine.

It doesn't sound like the issue you're having, but just throwing it out there. It does sound like an Idle air Control Valve, but you say there isn't one. Is that just a sensor for certain years and/or models.

Herb

Flux · 03-31-2017, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroncoHauler

Could it already have a tune on it when you bought it? With my Police Interceptor, I was having issues getting a tune to install properly, and the guy making the tunes for me, finally asked me to take it to Ford and have them reflash the PCM. After that, the car ran much better and the new tune installed just fine.

It doesn't sound like the issue you're having, but just throwing it out there. It does sound like an Idle air Control Valve, but you say there isn't one. Is that just a sensor for certain years and/or models.

Herb

Yes it may have had a tune on it when I got it and that could be an issue and a next step in figuring out how to get this thing to run right.

No IAC on these, no fuel pressure regulator, no inline fuel filter. No place to put a fuel pressure gauge. Best I can see is the Short Term Fuel Trim on my scan gauge and watch it live and see it trimming hard after a small rev. After I clean the throttle and replace the PCV valve and hose and check for the fourth time for leaks I will clear the KAM and let it relearn. If that fails......Ford for a reflash and see what they can see.

I guess this is the latest iteration of the V10 and it's a bit different than earlier models. I can't find consistent information on parts and diagrams. I have the Chilton and it shows slightly different stuff than the Ford Diagrams and they show different stuff than what I actually see. For instance, both chilton and ford show the shcrader valve for check pressure...........but it simply is not on my fuel rails.

I appreciate everyone chiming in. That's what makes this place great!! I owe countless beverages!

carringb · 03-31-2017, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flux

As best as I can tell, these things use the 02 sensors to adjust mix etc.

I would describe the o2 sensors as calibration devices, rather than control devices. They are relatively slow responding, which is why an upstream problem with fuel or air will cause surging while the o2 sensors respond.

The primary control is the MAF. There's various way to troubleshoot, and the Ford method has to monitor the 02 signals are varying RPMs. If the lambda value varies at low RPMs, but not at higher rpms, than there's a vacuum leak introducing a little extra air. If it varies at all RPMs, there's probably an intake leak downstream of the MAF. If it only leans out at high RPM, then fuel pressure become suspect.