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Old 06-20-2021, 08:59 PM   #11
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Thats all im looking for. Its low enough miles i dont want to dismantle it completely to paint it. I just want to touch up the small areas that have surface rust. I will have to take off the brake rotors however because the rotor surfaces have rust on them from sitting on a pallet unused. I can fix that with a wire brush and some sand paper.

Mainly i thought maybe someone had a product they used that held up better than the typical can of rustoleum spray paint considering the harsh environment the axle is exposed to being underneath the truck.
Obviously i will be removing the cover and draining out any old gear oil and putting in fresh oil and a gasket.

Beyond that it doesnt need anything, balljoints are good and solid, tierod ends are good, U-joints are good, etc.... I may throw on a new pair of brake pads while the rotors are off though.

My original plan was to remove the unit bearings and install a freespin kit, but this thing is such low mileage it would be a waste at this point in time. That said im just going to stick with the unit bearings until next spring just to see how they hold up.

As far as the bed bugs go, when i checked in i noticed that someones dog had pissed on the floor in the elevator and instead of mopping it up immediately they placed one of those yellow triangle shaped things over it that said "Caution Wet Floor". I guess maybe that should have served as a warning that this place might not be the best bang for the buck.
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Old 06-20-2021, 09:26 PM   #12
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I use the stuff out of a can and brush it on as thick as I can, I don't think spray paint apply's enough paint unless you do multiple coats. It doesn't look very good, but it protects well, you can't see it anyway unless you get down on the ground, and after the first trip off road you can't tell what kind of job you did anyway. Then again, my van rarely even gets washed except for the under carriage in the winter. Then I do it after every trip.
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Old 06-20-2021, 10:45 PM   #13
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I know eastwood has some chassis black thats supposed to be some good stuff.
Course as you stated, you have to use a rust encapsulator product first and of course its more expensive than the chassis paint.
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Old 06-26-2021, 09:00 PM   #14
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Well i opted for some KBS Blacktop, RustSeal, and RustBlast.

As far as i can tell the RustBlast is just an acid that eats away at the rust. I wasnt really impressed with it even though it did take off some rust. Then i applied the RustSeal which as near as i can tell is nothing more than POR15.

Their ads are very misleading, it tells you that their products are UV stable, however it says right on the can of RustSeal that it is not UV stable and must be topcoated. But thats why i have the BlackTop i guess.

I had to stop for the night because the mosquito's were absolutely horrible last night and tonight. I have had fewer bites out camping in the woods than i did working in the driveway tonight.

It was rediculous, if the city doesnt get some spraying done im gonna have to start getting loud.
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Old 07-03-2021, 10:02 AM   #15
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Sorry for saying but you lost me. Humorously meant, this post is all over the place from axle hubs to paint to lice and it started with a rental "quote". The rental company does not care what you haul in it as long as they get it back the way you took it. So telling them cabinets vs axle is well futile.
Paint is relative to the prep you perform on the axle. The best and most expensive paint is worthless to a poorly prepared surface.
I am still confused about all the hub and machine hubs versus bolt pattern. It took me a while to acknowledge that you were talking about a front as opposed to a rear axle with cutaway mentioned somewhere in there. I am not sure what year the Econoline went to metric but the pickups went to metric in 99.
IF you have a 8x6.5 Econoline then your easiest bet is to continue that as I did.
The issue is that the late model metric bolt axles are a hub centric which carries the weight rather than the rims/lugs carrying the weight. So in essence you are machining a hub that is designed to carry the load to wheels that are not. Not that it can be done but there was so much back and forth on 4" vs 3" vs 180 to 170 to ...
Just keep it simple because when you are out in the willy's, that is if you plan on using it in the outback, your not going to find a machined part on the parts counter and even less a machinist with a solar powered lathe to come out and make you a part.
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Old 07-03-2021, 10:42 PM   #16
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Have you ever installed a 2005+ dually axle under the front of any van? If you had you would already know that 16 inch dually wheels do not clear the brakes. You would also know that the dually pickup trucks have a 8x170mm lug pattern on the unit bearing, however the dually adapter utilizes 8x200mm on the wheel side. Standard ford pickup wheels and van wheels will NOT work with the OEM dually adapters. The dually adapters also utilize a larger hubcentric shoulder.

Older dually adapters which had the 8x6.5 lug pattern will not fit the newer 05+ axles, but even if they did, you wouldnt have accomplished anything because the 16 inch dually wheels will not clear the brake calipers. Even if you had a set of custom adapters machined, the 16 inch wheels still will not clear the brake calipers. Unless of course you had a pair of adapters built that push the wheel outwards another 2 or 3 inches futher than the stock 4 inch adapters already do.

Unless a person wants to spend 4 grand on aftermarket dually wheels you are limited to what is available on stock factory dually vehicles with 8x200mm lug pattern.

The solution is to run the new Dodge Ram 3500 dually wheels. They have identical specs to the later model ford pickups, 8x200mm and a 124mm hubcentric center bore, 17 inch diameter, with the exception that they are only 6 inches wide versus the 6.5 inch wide ford wheel.

The backspacing of the ford pickup dually wheels make it impossible to run them on the back of a van because they will hit the leaf springs prior to seating on the hub because they have nearly a full inch more backspacing/offset than the Dodge Ram wheels. I shouldnt say impossible, you can always slap a 2 inch thick spacer behind the inner wheel and shove everything out beyond the rear fender lip and have that custom swamp buggy, redneck, backwoods look.

Even though the dodge wheels will bolt directly onto the ford dually adapters they are 8x200mm lug pattern, unless a person wants to carry two spare tires he will be forced to address that lug pattern change on the rear axle. Some folks might choose to simply run a spacer/adapter on the rear, some folks might just leave 16 inch wheels on the rear with 17's on the front and carry two spares, i dont do things that way.

Beyond that, its a post i created for my own personal experience putting this thing together and rounding up the parts to do so. Possibly youre confused because i am building a dually chassis/cutaway van not a standard cargo van?

Currently i am at a stand still because its nearly impossible at this point to find the 2019+ Dodge dually wheels due to covid. The dealers cant even get them right now brand new (they are made in China). I have located several people selling them with tires (new take offs), but im not willing to pay for tires i will not be using. That said the completed axle is sitting in the garage just waiting to be installed. But since the truck is to large to fit inside the garage i cant do anything until i have the wheels here, otherwise the HOA will throw a fit because my truck is sitting on jack stands in the driveway waiting on me to locate and install wheels.

As far as the 3 inch vs 4 inch, it was me thinking out loud trying to figure a way to retain the 16 inch wheels with 8x6.5 lug pattern. It isnt possible on the 2005 and newer axles without taking a grinder to the brake calipers, and even then they still most likely wont fit or you end up ruining the brake calipers. On your standard cargo vans you have options for different offsets on the wheels to help overcome these issues. On dually trucks, those options are not options.

As far as the lice goes, it was something that happend while i was picking up parts for this thing in Oklahoma and was only posted so others could have a laugh at my expense. It didnt turn out to be lice or bed bugs even though i completely sterilized everything that wasnt nailed down.

If i was looking to half @ss it together i could simply eliminate the front dually adapters and buy two front wheels with 170mm lug pattern and negative offset and be done with it. But then again i would be forced to carry two spares.

Once its finished the only thing that wont be available off the shelf will be the rear bearing hubs. Any machine shop with a lathe and a mill can machine simple bearing hubs.

The topic of load, i am fully aware that the wheels are hubcentric. Nearly every vehicle designed to carry loads uses hubcentric wheels to support that load properly versus someones Honda Civic with acorn nuts and wheels. Not sure where you got this idea that wheels arent designed to support or carry loads, or where you got the idea i dont know what hubcentric means? Did you seriously think i was just going to have someone take a grinder and start grinding up parts to make them fit and then slap some acorn nuts on it?

However im almost certain if you did a survey you would find more than one person on this forum running aftermarket wheels with shank style lugnuts or acorns with no hubcentric ring. In fact i just had this discussion with another member two or three days ago. He was in a frenzy to get some nice shiny new wheels ordered for his van conversion and knew next to nothing about offset, backspacing, hubcentric, acorn nuts versus shank style nuts, etc....

As far as the rental company goes.. it was home depot, not rent a wreck. Theres zero reason to tell home depot that youre using their van to pickup 1/2 a ton of salvaged truck parts 3 states away.


The following dually ford is running the late model Dodge Ram dually wheels with the 8x200mm lug pattern. Note that the rear tires are protruding well beyond the fender edge. He added fender flares to minimize the otherwise clownish look it would have without the flares. That is not the look i am after. I dont know if he swapped out the rear axle to one that is wider or if he is running adapters behind the rear wheels. Regardless, my solution is to run dodge ram wheels and have new rear bearing hubs machined custom out of forged steel for the 8x200mm lug pattern. Nothing else changes, the rear rotors will still utilize the same bolt pattern on the back side of the hubs, the bearings and races will remain the the same. The only part of the hub that will change is the flange where the lug studs are pressed threw. That flange will be increased in diameter to accomodate the 8x200mm lug pattern versus 8x6.5. Any competent machinist can build these bearing hubs in their sleep. The guy im using has built literally thousands of them for pulling trucks, Baja trucks, race trucks, and daily drivers.

Anyway thanks for popping in and pointing out the obvious.
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Old 07-05-2021, 06:03 PM   #17
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Dana 60 with 4:10 gears and Timberline parts ready to roll under the truck. The Ford dealer managed to locate me a brand new set of OEM coil springs from my trucks build sheet as well. They were $139 dollars each, not cheap but at least i dont have to play guessing games about which springs to run now.

The axle is low mileage original from a 2006 F-350 SD. I installed new brake pads, and a brand new OEM Ford draglink. Thought about reaming out the pitman arm and using the F-350 draglink but decided against it. Painted the housing with KBS rust encapsulator after taking a wire brush and wheel to it to remove any surface rust and then using KBS acid based rust remover/metal etcher. Then i sprayed it with KBS Blacktop which is just a UV resistant black paint.

Im going to the local Upullit tomorrow to snip off some ABS sensor plugs so i can just build two adapter plugs to avoid cutting on the trucks wiring, at least until i know the ABS is functioning properly. Might also grab a steering box while im there.
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Old 07-05-2021, 06:11 PM   #18
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Hoping to also get these wheels shipped out to me tomorrow morning. They are 2021 Dodge Ram 3500 Dually wheels, New takeoffs. The reason for the Dodge wheels is that the Ford pickup wheels are 6.5" wide with 9.09" of backspacing, the Dodge wheels are 6.0" wide with 8.85" backspacing. The Ford dually van wheels have like 8.34 inches of backspacing. The Ford pickup wheels will hit the leaf springs on the rear of a dually chassis van before they seat on the hub. The Dodge wheels may still hit the leaf springs just barely, but that small amount can be compensated for using custom machined full float rear bearing hubs. I have to get custom rear hubs anyway to change the lug pattern to the larger Ford 8x200mm pattern used on the front axle.

This wheel issue seems to be a source of confusion for some people. Its actually a non issue with standard cargo vans. But on a dually chassis van's it becomes a major issue. After market dually wheels can easily exceed $4000 and im not even sure you can find them in a 6" inch width. That leaves you hunting for an alternative solution. The Dodge dually wheels are the closest thing to a solution. You can make the 05+ Ford pickup wheels work, however by the time you managed to make them fit on the rear they would be sticking two inches beyond your fender lip.
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Old 07-05-2021, 07:01 PM   #19
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Some of the Timberline parts and Ford springs. I opted for adjustable four link arms to assist in caster adjustment.

That panhard bar looks like a tooth pick laying next to the axle, hope its heavy enough.
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Old 07-05-2021, 07:12 PM   #20
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Now its just a waiting game until some wheels show up so that i can sit the truck back down on the ground once im finished installing the axle. I still cant get over how extremely heavy this axle is. I had read someplace that the standard Dana 60 has like 3/8" inch thick axle tubes, but the Dually axles have 1/2" thick axle tubes. Not sure if thats true or not but this thing is just beyond crazy heavy. Four grown men struggled just to get it out of the truck when i brought it home.

My game plan is to roll it under the truck and use a ratchet strap on each side of the axle to ratchet it up into position long enough to install the four link arms. I think i can just loop the straps around the spring towers. If it snaps the ratchet straps and falls its gonna bust the concrete driveway for sure.
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